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#1 Edited by deactivated-5b0ff1f569a57 (4213 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman

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Vs.

Black Panther

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The Rules:

  • In character
  • Composite loadout/standard gear
  • Start 15 meters apart
  • Post-Crisis/N52/Rebirth Batman
  • Basic Knowledge

Battlefield:

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#2 Posted by deactivated-5b0ff1f569a57 (4213 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by deactivated-5b2121a0a9a00 (10000 posts) - - Show Bio

OooO

Tag pls

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#4 Posted by APEX_pretador (18621 posts) - - Show Bio

YES

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#5 Posted by jplaya2023 (704 posts) - - Show Bio

hopefully this is a good debate i just don't honestly see how bats can win but i'm sure we will see a good debate

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#6 Posted by GearSecond659 (3252 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#7 Posted by deactivated-5b466be4b5981 (3660 posts) - - Show Bio

hehe BS

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#8 Posted by TheDeathstroke (2856 posts) - - Show Bio

TV4

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#9 Posted by deactivated-5ad4cb41c7fb8 (3527 posts) - - Show Bio

Don’t mind if I do hehe....T4V

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#11 Posted by blackspidey2099 (5240 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh awesome OP @causeimbatman. I'll try to get an opener up either tonight or tomorrow night. Btw, can you change my username in the OP to BS2099 or something because right now it looks just like the acronym for something else -_-

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#12 Posted by blackspidey2099 (5240 posts) - - Show Bio
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#13 Posted by deactivated-5b0ff1f569a57 (4213 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh awesome OP @causeimbatman. I'll try to get an opener up either tonight or tomorrow night. Btw, can you change my username in the OP to BS2099 or something because right now it looks just like the acronym for something else -_-

Lol.

It was delibrate

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#14 Posted by blackspidey2099 (5240 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Panther, King of Wakanda

"Take your best shot. I will offer no resistance. Then it will be my turn." - Black Panther

Bio

T'Challa, the Black Panther, was the son of T'Chaka, King of Wakanda. However, after T'Chaka was killed, T'Challa had to take over the mantle from his father, using the heart shaped herb to link him to Bast, the Panther God. The herb also enhanced him to become nearly superhuman. In his quest to protect Wakanda, he soon came into conflict with Western heroes such as the Avengers and Fantastic Four, before developing a friendly relationship with them, even building the Avengers' Quinjets. After his sister took over the kingdom of Wakanda, T'Challa went to commune with Bast who made him into her Black Panther and gave him the title of King of the Dead - giving Black Panther the knowledge of all Black Panthers before him - until his father's spirit disowned him for not being able to destroy an entire planet, even to protect Wakanda. Now, T'Challa has taken back leadership of Wakanda, but as a democratic leader rather than King. Despite having a new political role, the Black Panther remains committed to fighting for Wakanda's interests - as well as the betterment of the rest of the world!

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Powers/Abilities

Enhanced Strength:

Although Bruce has impressive strength for a peak human, T'Challa has been further enhanced by the heart-shaped herb, gaining physical strength beyond any regular human could ever attain. I believe T'Challa is more than strong enough to do significant damage to Batman through the sheer force of his strikes alone, and I will show that here.

1: T'Challa effortlessly breaks Kraven the Hunter's arm, despite the fact that Kraven has been able to fight somewhat evenly with Spider-Man on occasion [1].

2 - 3: T'Challa knocks out the Man-Ape in a few hits, despite the fact that M'Baku has been able to no-sell hits from Captain America, and even take a hit from the likes of Giant-Man [2][3].

4 - 5: T'Challa is able to take down a 5 ton rhino.

6: T'Challa punches straight through an alien in some sort of body-protection gear.

7: T'Challa staggers and knocks back Namor, King of Atlantis, who can take hits from the likes of Iron Man, with a sucker punch [4].

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Bruce's composite standard body armor does have impressive feats, I won't deny it, but T'Challa isn't going to have much trouble hurting Bruce under that armor.

Enhanced Speed and Reflexes:

Another one of T'Challa's attributes which was enhanced by the heart-shaped herb was his speed. T'Challa does have a couple bullet-timing feats, as well as a number of instances in which he has kept up with, if not outshone, some of Marvel's quickest street levelers and beyond. I'm sure you'll have plenty of impressive feats for Bruce here as well, but in general, I think T'Challa may actually hold the advantage.

1: T'Challa dodges sniper bullets (while unenhanced).

2: T'Challa casually dodges a bullet after it was fired (proving that he's a bullet timer).

3: T'Challa casually moves FTE, disappearing into thin air.

4: T'Challa astonishes Wolverine, who can attack at FTE speeds to regular humans, with his speed in combat [5].

5: T'Challa's speed surprises Captain America, a bonafide bullet timer, in combat [6].

6: Utilizing his speed as well as strategic mind, T'Challa even catches Spider-Man, who has Spider Sense and can consistently even dodge lasers, by surprise [7].

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Not only does T'Challa have the raw reflex feats to show he can match Batman, he also has great combat speed feats against Marvel's top street levelers to show that he can use his own speed to keep up with, if not even surpass, people who themselves are on Batman's level in terms of combat speed. Especially when used in conjunction with T'Challa's own combat skill, which I'll get to next, this could be an attribute to help seal him the victory.

Prodigious Martial Artist:

T'Challa is easily one of the absolute best combatants, in terms of sheer skill, in the Marvel Universe. This should mean that he can match, if not exceed, Bruce's own impressive feats in this area.

1: T'Challa has studied every fighting style in the world.

2: T'Challa is a master of all forms of hand-to-hand combat.

3: T'Challa has been trained as a warrior since childhood.

4: T'Challa humiliates Karnak, an Inhuman combatant who uses his ability to sense the weakness in anything to his advantage in combat, in a fight [8].

5: T'Challa is accomplished with nerve strikes, secretly employing several of them in a prolonged battle with the White Wolf, the leader of the Hatut Zeraze (Wakandan Secret Police), until he collapsed [9]. This also shows just how much of an expert he is with nerve strikes, being able to control their effect and intensity so White Wolf only fell asleep, and also creating a delay.

6: T'Challa knows all 32 pressure points in the human body.

7: T'Challa renders his enemy unconscious with a single nerve strike.

8: T'Challa can even use nerve strikes which work on Luke Cage, despite his durability and impenetrable skin granting him some resistance to nerve attacks [10].

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Overall, despite the fact that both T'Challa and Bruce have been studying martial arts for large chunks of their lives, I think T'Challa's mastery of pressure points and nerve strikes gives him an advantage in this area, should this battle come down to a duel of skill.

Gear

Vibranium Armor:

This armor can absorb energy from impact and redistribute it in a variety of ways. This means any attack used against Panther can just as easily be used against his opponent.

1: T'Challa's armor is completely bulletproof.

2: T'Challa's armor can even protect him by absorbing the power of hits from the likes of Namor, who can casually lift a large ship out of the ocean [11].

3: The armor can then redistribute the kinetic energy as T'Challa sees fit.

4: T'Challa's armor is nearly indestructible via blunt force, as shown by the fact it can take a hit from Professor Hulk, who is stronger than a nuclear bomb (though he wasn't going all out in the instance against T'Challa) [12].

5 - 7: T'Challa's armor can release energy in a variety of ways, whether as an AoE, a repulsor blast, or by just increasing his striking power.

8 - 9: T'Challa's gauntlets amp his striking power to the point that he can draw blood from Namor and make him scream [4].

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It's going to be really tough for Bruce to hurt T'Challa through this suit, and even if he does, T'Challa can just redirect his attacks right back at him. Bruce doesn't have a way to dodge or otherwise evade T'Challa's AoE energy projection, and if T'Challa tags him after boosting his own striking power, Bruce will be in a world of hurt.

Energy Daggers

Energy daggers are vibranium based, intangible, energy weapons which can scramble electronics, paralyze living things, track enemies, etc. Basically, they are super versatile and nearly impossible to counter.

1: T'Challa's Energy daggers can be generated by the Panther suit.

2: The daggers have lethality settings, and can be used to track enemies down.

3: The daggers easily cut through steel.

4: The daggers cut through and disable Iron Man's force field.

5: The daggers can paralyze nerves on contact.

6: The daggers are intangible enough to phase through adamantium, and they can disable even Ultron's electronics.

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A single touch from one of these daggers should end the fight for Bruce, as it should completely paralyze him.

Other Technology in the Panther Habit:

Beyond just the vibranium, the Panther Habit also contains some of the most advanced technology in the Marvel Universe, designed by T'Challa and the Wakandan Design Group.

1: The Panther Habit has cloaking technology.

2: The Panther Habit has teleportation technology.

3: The Panther Habit has hard light shields which can block a spear throw from Proxima Midnight, even though her spears could pierce through Hulk, who has been able to resist being pierced by jaws strong enough to crush adamantium [13][14].

4: The Panther Habit has grenades which can hurt Namor [4].

5: The Panther Habit has anti-metal claws which can liquefy any metal on contact and are sharp enough to pierce the likes of Black Dragon who can no-sell bullets from Wakandan Battle Cruiser aircraft [15][16].

6: The Panther Habit has vibranium soles which absorb momentum.

7: The Panther Habit has access to Kimoyo, which enables Black Panther to connect to and "speak with" any tech - including Galactus' own tech in this example.

8: The Panther Habit has a weapons disrupter system, which was shown to even work on advanced alien weaponry used by the Skrulls [17].

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As far as I'm aware, Bruce has no way to counter most of this tech, all of which could come in handy for this battle. T'Challa's cloaking and teleportation tech should be able to help him stay one step ahead of Bruce at all times; his shields should block anything Bruce has in his own arsenal; his claws can shred Bruce's gear like paper; his grenades can blow right past any protection Bruce is wearing; and Panther's Kimoyo and weapon disrupter tech should disable any of Bruce's own technological enhancements.

Concluding Thoughts and Strategy

I think I've successfully proven that T'Challa can match, if not exceed, Bruce in every single category which I brought up in my "Powers/Abilities" section, and that T'Challa's tech is good enough to seriously hamper any of Bruce's own gear, if not outright take him out immediately. With that in mind, this is how I see the fight going. The two combatants, knowing they are both impressive martial artists, begin in a melee brawl, showcasing their impressive knowledge and skill. In this sort of scenario, I think T'Challa's superior physicals as well as expertise with nerve strikes give him an edge, but let's say for the sake of argument Bruce puts up an even better fight than expected.

In that case, T'Challa can start to play dirty, using his claws and daggers in tandem with his regular attacks - the claws can shred through any defensive position Bruce tries to use to block T'Challa's attacks, and a touch from the dagger could paralyze Bruce long enough for T'Challa to knock him out. And yet, what if this plan goes wrong for whatever reason?

In that case, T'Challa can just use the energy he has stored in his suit to emit pulses of kinetic energy which Bruce cannot avoid, both hurting Bruce and knocking him off balance so T'Challa can take an advantage. But what if Bruce has tech to block the daggers or energy pulses?

If T'Challa deduces Bruce is using tech in his gear, T'Challa can just hack it with Kimoyo, or disable it with either his weapons disrupter, energy daggers, or anti-metal if it is made of metal. However, what if it isn't Bruce's tech which is making this battle so close?

In that case, T'Challa can take off the kid gloves, amp his striking power to Namor-busting levels, use his cloaking and teleportation tech, catch Bruce by surprise, and one-shot him.

Obviously, I didn't go through every possible scenario here. But I think that should cover the majority of them. At the end of the day, I believe T'Challa is just too versatile and carries too many advantages for Bruce to win this battle. However, as I'm pretty sure my opponent will disagree with that last statement, I look forward to what he has to say to disprove it...

TL;DR: Panther is stronger, quicker, equally if not more skilled, more experienced with nerve strikes, and has more powerful and more versatile tech (much of which is perfectly created to counter Bruce's own weapons). He is truly the complete package, and even if Bruce does manage to match him in one or more of those areas during the battle, T'Challa just has too many advantages for Bruce to take the win.

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#16 Posted by blackspidey2099 (5240 posts) - - Show Bio
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#17 Posted by CRUSHYOURENEMIES (2345 posts) - - Show Bio

t4v

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#18 Posted by blackpantherisb (5260 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#19 Posted by The_Magister (10346 posts) - - Show Bio

t4v

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#20 Edited by deactivated-5b0ff1f569a57 (4213 posts) - - Show Bio
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#21 Posted by blackspidey2099 (5240 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Posted by vsw (1492 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#23 Posted by _KingofLatveria (15317 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag

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#25 Edited by deactivated-5b0ff1f569a57 (4213 posts) - - Show Bio

Counters and Strategy: Round 1

"Everything you know, everything you own: I'm taking it all." - JLA #14

Counters: Panther's Technology

The Panther Habit

1: The Panther Habit has cloaking technology.

This ain't gonna work. Bruce's cowl and lenses give him various other visual senses:

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  • Scan 1: X-Ray Vision. (Detective Comics #937)
  • Scan 2: Capable of seeing heat signatures. (Batman Incorporated Vol. 1 #1)
  • Scan 3: Night Vision. (Superman/Batman #3)
  • Scan 4: Showcases thermal imaging. (Batman Vol. 2 #8)
  • Scan 5: Sees through multiple wavelengths/through the electromagnetic spectrum. (Batman: The Dark Knight Vol. 1 #1)
  • Scan 6: Cowl gives echolocation. (Detective Comics #838)

If Panther isn't invisible to all this, cloaking isn't much of a factor. Moreover, cloaking isn't in character for T'Challa. Where was this tactic in New Avengers Vol. 3 #22 when facing Namor?

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Or in New Avengers Vol. 3 #20 Vs. Alternate Universe Batman ripoff?

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Doesn't seem like an in character tactic to me.

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The Panther Habit has teleportation technology.

Not in character tactic. Where was it Vs. Batman ripoff and Namor? Or is Infinity #5 against Thanos' army?

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As stated in New Avengers Vol. 3 #1, Panther only used this to teleport back to the Royal City - he wasn't using it for combat purposes.

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The Panther Habit has hard light shields which can block a spear throw from Proxima Midnight, even though her spears could pierce through Hulk, who has been able to resist being pierced by jaws strong enough to crush adamantium

I don't think its that good a feat. Based off the fact the energy spear didn't even go thru those Wakandans, makes me think she wasn't using higher lvls of spear power. Moreover, Batman can simply use the energy deflector system in his utility belt to deflect the shield like how he did in Detective Comics Vol. 2 #11 against Mr. Toxic's energy beams or use chaff grenades to deflect the shield as he did against Dr. Light's energy blasts in Superman/Batman #43

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Scan order is broken so its:

  • Scan 2
  • Scan 3
  • Scan 4
  • Scan 1

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The Panther Habit has grenades which can hurt Namor

I don't see why Batman can't just dodge the grenades. Plus The Batsuit has showcased in Justice League Vol. 3 #41 that it can absorb energy and redirect it as electrical attacks. In that case it absorbed and redirected The Fan's counterfeit GL ring. Sure, we can't quantify how powerful the counterfeit's GL blast could be but based off the fact the blast energy turned to electricity was enough to draw blood from The Fan - who has tanked a punch from Green Lantern Simon Baz - now we know how good is the energy absorption. Pretty sure than Simon Baz punch> Grenades, and GL blast Batsuit absorbed>Simon Baz punch. Would like to see how T'Challa tanks that.

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The Panther Habit has anti-metal claws which can liquefy any metal on contact and are sharp enough to pierce the likes of Black Dragon who can no-sell bullets from Wakandan Battle Cruiser aircraft

Luckily the Batsuit isn't made out of any metals, in Batman: Secret Files and Origins and Batman Plus: Arsenal it was revealed to be made out of triple weave kevlar and nomex.

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As for its general piercing capabilities, I don't see the claws piercing Black Dragon in that scan. Even if it did, Batsuit can resist it. An OMAC (herald lvl bots) blade couldn't pierce it in The OMAC Project #3 and a batarang (they have high-herald lvl piercing capabilities as I'll show later) did nothing to the cowl (which is made out of the same material as the rest of the suit) back in Batman Vol. 1 Annual #22

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Yes, it might sound like PIS that the Batsuit has this lvl of durability but piercing durability is different in comics. Prime example is Wonder Woman.

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The Panther Habit has vibranium soles which absorb momentum.

Not sure how this would be useful in this case but OK.

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: The Panther Habit has access to Kimoyo, which enables Black Panther to connect to and "speak with" any tech - including Galactus' own tech in this example.

You said that this would hack into Bruce's tech but this isn't a hacking feat. All he did was interface with Galactus' tech. That's it, it didn't hack into anything. Moreover, what tech are you hacking here? Which tech exactly?

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The Panther Habit has a weapons disrupter system, which was shown to even work on advanced alien weaponry used by the Skrulls [17].

That's specific anti firearm/gun disrupters, that was a thing in Hudlin's Black Panther's run. Actually in the first issue of his run (Black Panther Vol. 4 #1) , he showed the Wakandian people having that kind of gun disrupters decades back, so it seems like its a specific anti gun thing.

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As for the Skrulls instance from Black Panther Vol. 4 #39, they specifically stated their guns got exploded, nothing else. Furthermore, that was using some Wakandan disrupters from the Castle or whatever so its not standard gear. Ergo, weapon disruptors aren't doing anything to Batman's gear.

As far as I'm aware, Bruce has no way to counter most of this tech, all of which could come in handy for this battle. T'Challa's cloaking and teleportation tech should be able to help him stay one step ahead of Bruce at all times; his shields should block anything Bruce has in his own arsenal; his claws can shred Bruce's gear like paper; his grenades can blow right past any protection Bruce is wearing; and Panther's Kimoyo and weapon disrupter tech should disable any of Bruce's own technological enhancements.

No.

Energy Daggers

The daggers easily cut through steel.

Meh, I already showed piercing feats but for energy durability feats he was unfazed after a building explosion in Detective Comics #743-744

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4: The daggers cut through and disable Iron Man's force field.

Only because of Panther analyzing and synthesizing the force field's wave algorithm. Not a real feat.

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The daggers can paralyze nerves on contact

So why didn't he use this tactic against Kraven during their fight from Black Panther Vol. 3 #6?

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The daggers are intangible enough to phase through adamantium, and they can disable even Ultron's electronics.

They wouldn't fry the utility belt because in reality, the energy deflector system keeps deflecting the daggers and the Batsuit just absorbs the daggers - thanks for the extra electrical attacks T'Challa!

Vibranium Suit

Admittedly Bruce can't get through the suit quickly enough. But you know what can? Earthquakes! Specifically, earthquake punches! Batman has an "seismic knuckles" for his gauntlets as showcased in Justice League Of America Vol. 5 #26. These allowed him to hurt Lord Havok, who has tanked a hit from Lobo.

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Panther can only tank bankhands from holding back high tiers like Professor Hulk, but full one punches? Hell no. Once Bruce sees his strikes are doing nothing, he'll oneshot Panther using earthquake punches. His suit hasn't absorbed anything as powerful as earthquake punches.

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T'Challa's armor can release energy in a variety of ways, whether as an AoE, a repulsor blast,

Energy deflection system takes care of that, plus Batman's energy durability that's enough to no sell building explosions.

8 - 9: T'Challa's gauntlets amp his striking power to the point that he can draw blood from Namor and make him scream

Batsuit absorbs energy tho so it can absorb the gauntlet energies.

Counters: Panther's Powers and Abilities

Skills

T'Challa has studied every fighting style in the world.

Awww, he studied them? Good kitty! Batman has been trained to perfection in every violent art and can incap a person in 463 ways without drawing blood as stated by Bruce himself in Batman: The Widening Gyre #4

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Obviously, being perfect at every fighting style>>>studying them.

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T'Challa is a master of all forms of hand-to-hand combat.

That's not consistent. He's been shown in The Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe: The Avengers 2004 to be only a level 5 fighter. Level 5 fighters are only a master of one form of combat.

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Then the same thing was shown in The Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe: Marvel Knights 2004.

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Then there's Panther stating he only studied all fighting styles. Consistently speaking, T'Challa has only mastered one form of combat and just studied all of them. Doesn't come close to being trained in perfection to all of them.

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T'Challa has been trained as a warrior since childhood.

Nice, but experience doesn't mean anything. Thor has a ton of experience, but he doesn't come close to people like Batman. I'm going to need actual skill feats rather than experience somehow making him more skilled than Bruce. Experience wasn't even enough for mastering every fighting style.

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T'Challa humiliates Karnak, an Inhuman combatant who uses his ability to sense the weakness in anything to his advantage in combat, in a fight

To be fair Karnak was only sensing the weak points in BP's body. All BP had to do was dodge, then hit which is what he needed. There wasn't any specific skill in play with Panther.

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T'Challa is accomplished with nerve strikes, secretly employing several of them in a prolonged battle with the White Wolf, the leader of the Hatut Zeraze (Wakandan Secret Police), until he collapsed [9]. This also shows just how much of an expert he is with nerve strikes, being able to control their effect and intensity so White Wolf only fell asleep, and also creating a delay.

6: T'Challa knows all 32 pressure points in the human body.

7: T'Challa renders his enemy unconscious with a single nerve strike.

8: T'Challa can even use nerve strikes which work on Luke Cage, despite his durability and impenetrable skin granting him some resistance to nerve attacks

Pressure points and nerve strikes won't work on Bruce. How can Panther nerve strike Batman when he's under armor, when he'll only be nerve striking the armor and not Bruce's actual pressure points/nerves?

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You haven't posted a single H2H skill (Karnak instance isn't skill) feat for Panther to even hang in CQC. Meanwhile, we have Batman flat out stomping Prometheus in JLA #38. This is impressive because Prometheus is essentially DC's Taskmaster (just as an example, Prome is less skilled than Masters); he wears a helmet installed with the skills of DC's top 30 martial artists yet Bruce still stomped him easy. This is the level of skill Batman operates at, and in so far I see him having a massive skill advantage. This isn't even his best skill feat......

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Panther's Striking Power and Strength Vs. Batman's Durability and Strength

T'Challa effortlessly breaks Kraven the Hunter's arm, despite the fact that Kraven has been able to fight somewhat evenly with Spider-Man on occasion

Strength wise Batman might be stronger, if a grapple ensues. I mean he wtf-stomped Solomon Grundy in one move during Batman Vol. 3 #2. Just before Rebirth, Batman came into contact with the Dionesium chemical compound. This healed all previous injuries, making him "the fastest and strongest Batman since ever". Before Dionesium, Batman needed a decent beating to take down Grundy. Now? Wtf Stomps him. Meaning Pre-Dionesium Batman<<<<Post Dionesium Batman. I believe Panther is stronger than Pre Dionesium but Post Dionesium who is far, far stronger than Pre? Not happening.

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T'Challa knocks out the Man-Ape in a few hits, despite the fact that M'Baku has been able to no-sell hits from Captain America, and even take a hit from the likes of Giant-Man

That's taking things out of context, BP didn't him once. He only slashed him with his claws. Actually in this instance from Black Panther Vol. 3 #35, we see Man-Ape just fine some seconds later.

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: T'Challa is able to take down a 5 ton rhino.

I honestly don't how that's better than Bruce ragdolling someone he previously had decent trouble with.

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T'Challa punches straight through an alien in some sort of body-protection gear.

We dunno how durable this random alien is, no reason to believe he has durability anywhere near close to Bruce.

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T'Challa staggers and knocks back Namor, King of Atlantis, who can take hits from the likes of Iron Man, with a sucker punch

Yeah this is a massive, massive outlier. Namor is capable of withstanding hits from the likes of Sentry and Hulk but Panther even staggers him? That would put T'Challa's striking Nuke+++++, out of respect for you intelligence I'll assume you somehow missed that fact. Street level character doesn't oneshot mid- high street tiers, yet staggers Namor....lol.

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Bruce's composite standard body armor does have impressive feats, I won't deny it, but T'Challa isn't going to have much trouble hurting Bruce under that armor.

Mate, your feats are either out of context, we don't know the character's durability or PIS. You haven't posted a single noteworthy feat to harm Bats. Now let me show you show some durability feats for Batman.

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  • Scan 1: A kick from Lady Shiva deals zero damage. Shiva has brief oneshotted the likes of Nightwing..... (Superman/Batman #3)
  • Scan 4-2: On Venom Bane hits Bruce yet Batman continues without much damage. Same Bane who very casually oneshotted a pillar. (Forever Evil Aftermath: Batman Vs. Bane)
  • Scan 3: Tanks several hits from The Heretic. Heretic has casually oneshotted Nightwing. (Batman Incorporated Vol. 2 #6)
  • Scan 5: Azrael deals no damage, same Az who dealt harm to off venom Bane. (Batman: Gotham Knights #5)

So yeah, Panther is going to have trouble in putting Bruce down.

Speed and Agility

Another one of T'Challa's attributes which was enhanced by the heart-shaped herb was his speed. T'Challa does have a couple bullet-timing feats, as well as a number of instances in which he has kept up with, if not outshone, some of Marvel's quickest street levelers and beyond. I'm sure you'll have plenty of impressive feats for Bruce here as well, but in general, I think T'Challa may actually hold the advantage.

You need to rethink a bit, don't you?

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T'Challa dodges sniper bullets (while unenhanced).

This isn't bullet timing. We don't get an exact view of when the shooter shot and Panther moved, so as far as we know its just aim dodging or the shooter missing.

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T'Challa casually dodges a bullet after it was fired (proving that he's a bullet timer)

That's low lvl bullet timing. Just an average 762 m/s handgun/pistol bullet. That's not as good as Bruce dodging semi automatic gunfire in Detective Comics Vol. 2 #10. Popular semi automatics are roughly 1000 m/s. Might look like aim dodging but considering Batman himself stated that he dodged those bullets - its bullet timing.

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T'Challa casually moves FTE, disappearing into thin air.

I mean Batman moved FTE to Lt. Forbes getting behind him in a moment right after he shoots a bullet back in Batman: The Dark Knight Vol. 2 #3

No Caption Provided

He has better though, like moving FTE to Catwoman in Batman/Superman #15. Moving FTE to the likes of Catwoman is obviously way better than moving FTE to normal humans.

No Caption Provided

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T'Challa astonishes Wolverine, who can attack at FTE speeds to regular humans, with his speed in combat

Damn, Logan is an idiot. Reacting to him once makes him say "fast"? Lolz. Seriously, do you have feats of BP matching or at least moving almost as fast as Logan or other characters of the same caliber? Otherwise this isn't much of a feat, reacting to a character once isn't that impressive. Now moving strait up FTE to Catwoman? That's some good shit.

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T'Challa's speed surprises Captain America, a bonafide bullet timer, in combat

The exact same problem as above.

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Utilizing his speed as well as strategic mind, T'Challa even catches Spider-Man, who has Spider Sense and can consistently even dodge lasers, by surprise

I mean T'Challa states that Peter is faster. As you said, BP only achieved this due to his strategic mind. Thus doesn't speak to overall combat speed during combat.

So far, Bruce seems faster.

Pain Tolerance

Bruce's pain tolerance is absolutely insane. In Batman: Birth Of The Demon, he got lit on fire, got a shovel shoved through his gut by Ra’s but still kept fighting him. Plus he already poisoned by toxic waste before this...

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Sorry, scans out of order

Gear:

Basic tactic would be batarangs which should easily pierce Panther:

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  • Scan 1: Batarangs easily pierce Blockbuster, someone capable of giving Superman a good fight. (Grayson Annual #2)
  • Scan 2: Pierced OMACs which can no sell blasts from John Stewart and take punches from Superman with zero damage. (Batman #648)
  • Scan 3: Slashes Lobo's finger off. (Batman/Superman #29)

He should be able to tag Daredevil mid combat. Batman can launch them from his gauntlets, I don't see how T'Challa can dodge them in deep CQC when he's focused on H2H.

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  • Scan 1: Launches multiple batarangs from his gauntlets. (Batman: The Dark Knight Vol. 2 #25)
  • Scan 2: Again, Vs. Bane. (Forever Evil Aftermath: Batman Vs. Bane)

While they won't put him down they can hurt him.

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Batman could also use tranq darts to take down BP. These can be launched from his gauntlets as well. Obviously tranqs won't go thru the suit, but Bruce can use a batarang to pierce the suit first, then tranqs.

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  • Scan 1: Launches tranqs out of his gauntlets. (Batman and Robin Vol. 2 #27)
  • Scan 2: More. (Batman and Robin Vol. 2 #29)
  • Scan 3: Bruce launches dozens of tranqs. (Batman and Robin Vol. 2 #14)

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Batman can also use explosives to either KO or deal decent damage to Panther, depending on his explosive/energy durability.

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  • Scan 1: Vs. Red Hood, grenades cause decent sized explosion. (Batman #641)
  • Scan 4-2: Microscopic attached explosive significantly damages Lincoln March's owl armor which has no sold hits from Batman. (Batman Vol. 2 #11)
  • Scan 3: Grenades make a decent explosion. (Batman #671

========================================================================================================================================

Plus flashbangs can blind him. Sure, he has his senses but obviously he won't fight as well without his eyesight.

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  • Scan 1: Flashbang brief blind a weakened multi city lvl Superman. (Batman #612)
  • Scan 2: Directional strobe light. (Trinity Vol. 2 #17)

========================================================================================================================================

Moreover Batman can restrain Panther with hardening foam fired from Gauntlets like in Batman Oddyssey #6

No Caption Provided

Summery:

In short, Batman's physicals overwhelm Panther's. Once Bruce sees he's too durable, he would switch to earthquake punches to oneshot. Then there's his gear which offers versatility, counters BP's gear and offers ways to take him down.

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#26 Posted by deactivated-5b0ff1f569a57 (4213 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Posted by deactivated-5b2121a0a9a00 (10000 posts) - - Show Bio

Lmao

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#28 Posted by TheWatcherKing (16681 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Panther (Bullshit2099)

Am I the only one who notices that in the title?

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#29 Posted by deactivated-5b0ff1f569a57 (4213 posts) - - Show Bio
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#31 Edited by deactivated-5b0ff1f569a57 (4213 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieldaripper: I copy pasted that part from my Bats Vs Daredevil CaV so I forget to replace DD with BP

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#33 Edited by blackspidey2099 (5240 posts) - - Show Bio

@causeimbatman: jeez I didn't know Batman was okay with cyber bullying lmao

plus I don't really think changing my username in the OP from "blackspidey2099" to "bullshit2099" is appropriate CaV behaviour.

EDIT: just read your post, interesting tactics with questioning how in-character it is for them to do stuff...

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#34 Posted by deactivated-5b0ff1f569a57 (4213 posts) - - Show Bio
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#35 Edited by CRUSHYOURENEMIES (2345 posts) - - Show Bio

looking forward for what bullshit2099 can pull off with blackpanther.

t4v

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#36 Edited by blackspidey2099 (5240 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 2: Rebuttals and Counters

"You will agree to act as my servant --- and I will agree to not carve your heart like a roast." - Black Panther

Countering Batman's Gear

Batman's Cowl:

  • Scan 1: X-Ray Vision. (Detective Comics #937)
  • Scan 2: Capable of seeing heat signatures. (Batman Incorporated Vol. 1 #1)
  • Scan 3: Night Vision. (Superman/Batman #3)
  • Scan 4: Showcases thermal imaging. (Batman Vol. 2 #8)
  • Scan 5: Sees through multiple wavelengths/through the electromagnetic spectrum. (Batman: The Dark Knight Vol. 1 #1)
  • Scan 6: Cowl gives echolocation. (Detective Comics #838)

It's not invisible to all that (at least, not according to any feats I'm aware of), just checking to make sure you were paying attention. So I'll leave this topic here.

Batman's Energy Deflector, Chaff Grenades, & Energy Absorption Batsuit:

Energy Deflector:

I don't think the energy deflection device you mentioned is relevant whatsoever in this debate. First of all, it only deflected a radiation/energy beam from Mr. Toxic, whose powers were based on radiation - as shown in the scans below (I pretty much reposted your scans because the mismatched order was extremely annoying - can you please fix it for your next post? It's a huge PITA to read through and counter your post when literally every single time you post 2 or more scans they are out of order.).

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Detective Comics Vol. 2 #10-12

In the second scan, we can see that Batman is immediately affected by the radiation, in a form similar to radiation sickness. using this information, it can be proven that his beam was either made of electromagnetic radiation, or subatomic particles.

Radiation sickness results when humans (or other animals) are exposed to very large doses of ionizing radiation.

Ionizing radiation causes immediate effects on human tissue. X-rays, gamma rays, and particle bombardment (neutron beam, electron beam, protons, mesons, and others) give off ionizing radiation.

MedLine Plus Medical Encyclopedia

Thus, it is clear that the beam which the energy deflector was able to deflect was made of one of either high energy EM radiation or subatomic particles, though since it was giving off a visible energy beam, it's possible it could be EM radiation. Either way, that energy is certainly not similar to the energy types T'Challa uses in his energy daggers, force-field, or suit redirection. T'Challa's force-field is clearly not an energy beam in that sense, as it stays in one place instead of traveling at the speed of light, and neither are his energy daggers, as they can form in one shape and also don't move at the speed of light, and can be held/touched. As I mentioned in my earlier post (and showed in one of the scans), T'Challa's suit redistributes kinetic energy, which is not the same as either of those energy types. And in the scans I showed of the grenades, it seemed like they emit some sort of smoke when they explode, so it's clear the explosives were from a chemical reaction rather than being electromagnetic energy (not to mention the fact that if it was electromagnetic energy, it would be impossible to store it like that in a grenade). So your energy deflector won't be of any use in this battle.

However, just to further drive the nail into the coffin of this strategy, I'd like to point out that Batman doesn't often use this energy deflector in character. In fact, AFAIK, that's the only time it has ever appeared. Do you have any other showings of this deflector in action?

Chaff Grenades:

As for the chaff grenades, from Batman's description, they basically just contain tiny pieces of reflective materials like small shards of a mirror. Since you've only shown them working on visible light though, there's no reason to think they'd work on any of Panther's tech, which I just explained were not visible light.

Energy Absorbing Batsuit:

The Fan - who has tanked a punch from Green Lantern Simon Baz -

Are you serious? Tanked a punch from Simon Baz? He's on the ground for the next two pages after that! I'm not sure how you define tank, but I think the majority of ComicVine users would agree that being knocked on the ground for two pages means he didn't tank the punch. Also, Fan wasn't wearing an armor in this scan, and since he is just a regular human, he would have been killed had Simon used a lot of strength. It doesn't appear like Simon Baz was using all his strength there, since he wasn't trying to kill The Fan, so he must have been holding back - as the Flash says, Simon never uses deadly force. Thus, this durability feat is both unquantifiable and unimpressive.

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Justice League Vol. 3 #37

Sure, we can't quantify how powerful the counterfeit's GL blast could be but based off the fact the blast energy turned to electricity was enough to draw blood from The Fan

Yeah, I really don't think that was meant to show the Fan bleeding, since it is coming from his arm which is covered by some sort of material, rather than an uncovered part of his body. Blood doesn't just spurt out like that.

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Justice League Vol. 3 #41

But even if it was bleeding, that's still hardly impressive. I just proved that Fan doesn't have any impressive durability, since he is a regular person. Batman's punch broke his suit of armor, so there was nothing protecting him; meaning he's just a regular guy in superhero clothing getting punched by Batman. Even if his armor wasn't broken, it has no impressive durability feats, so this feat is still unimpressive.

So yeah, nothing from this energy absorption tech shows me that it is powerful enough to absorb any of Black Panther's own technology, whether the grenades or the daggers or the kinetic blasts. Not to mention the fact that you've only shown it absorbing a blast from a knock-off Green Lantern ring, so we don't even know what type of energy it is - which means there's no reason to just assume it would work on Black Panther's weapons which are not just run of the mill lasers (which it looks like the knock-off ring emits).

I've already debunked why your energy absorbing batsuit is nowhere near as capable as you claim, but now I'd like to show why it wouldn't work even if your claims were all true.

According to you, the Batsuit can absorb and redirect energy in greater quantities than T'Challa's grenades can output.

Pretty sure than Simon Baz punch> Grenades, and GL blast Batsuit absorbed>Simon Baz punch.

causeimbatman

Since T'Challa used those grenades to severely hurt Namor (scans in my opener), who, according to you, has durability WAY higher than a nuke (I'm not agreeing or disagreeing right now, just paraphrasing your words).

Namor is capable of withstanding hits from the likes of Sentry and Hulk but Panther even staggers him? That would put T'Challa's striking Nuke+++++

causeimbatman

Since the grenades hurt Namor quite a lot, by your logic they must be Nuke+++++++++++. And since you believe Batman's batsuit can absorb more energy than that, I guess you are trying to say that the batsuit has Nuke+++++++++ level energy manipulation/redirection.

In that case, it just isn't consistent whatsoever for Batman to use this technology. It certainly would have come in handy in All-Star Batman #2 where Batman was completely knocked out by a small explosive attached to his cowl, which wasn't even powerful to hurt Two-Face who was standing right next to him.

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Or, even in the issue before the scans you posted (Justice League Vol. 3 #40), this super energy absorbing Batsuit would have been of great help when the Watchtower was crashing down from space and nearly burning up in atmospheric re-rentry.

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Justice League Vol. 3 #40

Depending how large the Watchtower is, the energy released by atmospheric re-entry really isn't that much. This calculation done on Physics StackExchange puts the total energy release of a starship going through atmospheric re-entry and then actually slamming into the ground as around the energy of 7 Hiroshima nukes. And that is likely a vast over-estimation since it includes the energy released by the ship actually crashing onto the Earth, not just the energy released by re-entry which is likely to be much lesser. This is actually pretty simple physics, and I could easily do a more accurate estimation calculation, though I held back since I wasn't sure whether you wouldn't want me to use my own calculations - if you're fine with it, I can include one in my next post.

To compare with current nukes, it seems like average nukes used nowadays are between 100-170 kilotons - ie. they release more energy than atmospheric re-entry, even by that wild over-exaggeration which we used. Since, by your own scaling, you showed T'Challa's grenades are way above that level, the fact that Batman doesn't think his suit is good enough to protect from energy re-entry should prove it definitely won't be good against T'Challa's grenades. Either that or it's just totally out-of-character for Batman to use it, to the point that he'd rather let his colleagues and friends in the Justice League possible die instead of use it - which means he wouldn't want to use it in this battle either way!

And just to finish with this topic, has Batman ever used any of this tech more than once? Because if he hasn't, then he really doesn't use it in character, which makes all that tech a completely moot point in this battle. I'm already like 90% sure the energy manipulation Batsuit has only been used once for literally two panels, and I don't recall the energy deflector device Lucius built being used again either. Admittedly, I'm not sure whether the chaff grenades were ever used again.

Anyways, I already believe I've completely proven why none of that tech is going to be of any use in this battle, but I thought it's be easier to just shut this topic down if none of that tech is in-character to use, rather than wasting time arguing about all this stuff when Batman would never use it anyway.

Batman's "Seismic Knuckles":

Okay, first I want to disprove your notion that Lord Havok "tanked a hit from Lobo" (which you conveniently didn't include any scans for). In the actual comic, it's pretty clear that Havok was hurt and thrown quite far by that hit.

Justice League of America Vol. 5 #4
Justice League of America Vol. 5 #4

Anyways, I think using just that feat to represent Lord Havok's durability is way overselling him. In fact, Vixen was able to do a similar level of damage to Havok as Batman did in those scans you were showing - and this was without channeling any abilities.

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Justice League of America Vol. 5 #4

In the first scan, she does some superficial damage to Havok despite not channeling any animal, and in the second scan she staggers Havok just as much as (if not more than) Batman did in the scan you provided. To be fair, as I showed in the third scan, she was channeling the powers of a poisonous frog, but that wouldn't have increased her strength at all. And before you claim Havok was staggered only because of the poison, the punch in the second scan was the first punch Vixen threw after channeling the frog, so the poison wasn't even in his bloodstream until after he was hit and staggered (the first scan occurs way earlier in the issue, so that punch doesn't count since Vixen wasn't channeling the frog then). Vixen is a peak human without channeling a stronger animal from her necklace, so I don't think Havok's durability is as good as you claim.

In fact, even in the scan you showed, Black Canary's cry was able to do more damage to Havok than Batman's gloves (the cry made Havok scream in pain, while Havok was just barely staggered and laughed off the impact of the gloves).

Furthermore, another issue with your plan of using these seismic gloves is that, as your scan showed, Batman keeps them in his utility belt. He can't just turn them on with a thought, he needs to dig them out of his utility belt, put them on, and then activate them. How exactly do you think Batman will get that amount of time in this battle? T'Challa won't just stand there waiting for Bruce to put on these gloves, and if Bruce does try to wear them, T'Challa would gut him before he even puts them on.

The final issue with these seismic gloves is that, again, Batman doesn't use them in character.

For example, when a bunch of supervillains attack the League, why does Batman just stand back and do nothing instead of using those seismic knuckles to get in the fight?

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Justice League Vol. 3 #10/11

Hell, he even tries hitting a supervillain with a baseball bat (which does nothing) rather than use those seismic knuckles.

If that wasn't enough for you, here's another fight where they could have come in handy.

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Batman Vol. 3 #5

Instead of using his seismic knuckles against Gotham, Batman does a couple of ineffectual attacks, blows up a ton of property, and then just calls the Justice League for help. While Gotham was too powerful to be taken down by seismic knuckles after he scaled up his power to defeat Superman later in the issue, initially he was vulnerable enough to Batman's kicks and explosives that the seismic knuckles would have packed a real punch. The fact that Batman didn't even try using them is pretty telling - either they aren't standard gear or he just never ever uses them in character.

Has he ever used those knuckles before or since? Because right now I'm thinking either they aren't standard gear or he never used them in character; either way, they're irrelevant to this fight.

Batman's Other Gear:

Batarangs:

  • Scan 1: Batarangs easily pierce Blockbuster, someone capable of giving Superman a good fight. (Grayson Annual #2)
  • Scan 2: Pierced OMACs which can no sell blasts from John Stewart and take punches from Superman with zero damage. (Batman #648)
  • Scan 3: Slashes Lobo's finger off. (Batman/Superman #29)

These feats mean nothing without piercing durability feats for the characters you mentioned. You yourself said in comics piercing durability can be different from other forms of durability, citing Wonder Woman as an example. Keeping in that spirit, what piercing durability feats do Blockbuster, OMACs, and Lobo have which make them so impressive? Furthermore, I can show that Batarangs don't actually have such great piercing power consistently.

1: Batarang fails to pierce a regular person (Suicide Squad Vol. 1 #43).

2: Batarang fails to pierce a gun (in fact, it bounces off!) or the person holding it (Batman: The 12 Cent Adventure #1).

3: Batarang fails to pierce a gun (in fact, it bounces off!) or the armor of the person holding it (Detective Comics Vol. 1 #775).

4 - 5: Batarang fails to pierce a gun (in fact it bounces off!) (Batman Vol. 1 #369).

6: Batarang fails to pierce a statue (in fact, it bounces off!) and then doesn't even pierce skin (it even bounces off regular skin!) (Detective Comics #701).

7: Batarang fails to pierce the walls (in fact, it bounces off a bunch of times!) (Detective Comics #759).

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If the batarangs can't even pierce run of the mill materials like that, there is no way they can pierce vibranium.

Batman can launch them from his gauntlets, I don't see how T'Challa can dodge them in deep CQC when he's focused on H2H.

How fast do they move? I've shown that T'Challa is a bullet timer, so if these are slow, I think T'Challa can still dodge. Either way, I've shown that they won't pierce the vibranium.

Tranquilizers:

Batman could also use tranq darts to take down BP.

Not going to work. Even without his powers, T'Challa was able to keep up with and battle Kraven after being tagged by a potent neurotoxin.

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Black Panther: The Man Without Fear #519

Explosives:

Batman can also use explosives to either KO or deal decent damage to Panther, depending on his explosive/energy durability.

It's too good for those to do any significant damage for sure.

1: T'Challa is unaffected by a point blank explosion (Black Panther Vol. 3 #12).

2: T'Challa is unaffected by an even larger explosion (Black Panther Vol. 3 #4).

3: T'Challa is unaffected by a plasma energy discharge powerful enough to bring Thor to his knees according to Tony Stark (likely vast exaggeration) (Black Panther Vol. 3 #45).

4 - 6: T'Challa is fully conscious after taking a blast from Stardust, Herald of Galactus (Fantastic Four #545) - ignore the PIS hold.

7: T'Challa takes a close range blast from Phoenix-empowered Namor (Avengers vs. X-Men #8).

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Flashbangs:

Plus flashbangs can blind him.

Okay, I'm going to quote @blackpantherisbs counter to this, because it is just so thorough and there's no way I'd be able to do as good a job as he/she did.

Multi-city level? I don't think so. In the scan directly after the one you post Superman is seriously hurt and stunned by the electricity that powers metropolis:

Batman Vol. 1 #612
Batman Vol. 1 #612

And while you may say that obviously this makes Superman multi-city level, the amount of raw electric energy that major cities use isn't an insane amount, at least for super humans. Let's take New York for example it produces 11,000 mega-watts per day. And while that is very impressive 11,000 megawatts converts to 11,000,000,000 joules. Which converts to 2.6290630975143 tons of TNT, a roughly block level amount of energy:

The two green rings covey the radius of the radiation 2.629 tons of tnt in a nuke would put out, but obviously electricity doesn't produces radiation so only focus on the yellow, red, blue, and orange circles since those display the amount of raw destruction it would cause.
The two green rings covey the radius of the radiation 2.629 tons of tnt in a nuke would put out, but obviously electricity doesn't produces radiation so only focus on the yellow, red, blue, and orange circles since those display the amount of raw destruction it would cause.

So yeah Superman was badly hurt by a block level amount of raw energy, a normal Superman has a similar reaction to planetary explosions. So yeah Superman was very heavily weakened here, especially considering that Batman's blows, that weren't enhanced by the kryptonite ring where ragdolling him and drawing blood:

Batman Vol. 1 #612
Batman Vol. 1 #612

And while Batman does say that it was hurt his hand the fact of the matter is that even without hitting him with the K-ring directly he was drawing blood. Superman was massively weakened in this instance and those flashbangs didn't even fully blind him, simply made it harder to see for a second are two.


blackpantherisb

So those flashbangs aren't as powerful as you claim. Since Black Panther's mask has lenses which can filter out intense light (Black Panther Vol. 3 #55), I don't think those flashbangs will do much, and the featless strobe lights certainly won't.

Hardening Foam:

Batman can restrain Panther with hardening foam fired from Gauntlets

Any feats for how strong this is?

Overall, I don't think any of this gear will be a problem for T'Challa tbh.

Defending Black Panther's Gear

Panther's Teleportation:

Not in character tactic.

Jeez, I never even said he was going to use it, just that it is an option. I agree that Panther won't be teleporting in and out from the beginning of the fight, since that isn't how he does things, but he would use it if he needed to. T'Challa isn't usually overly concerned with anything beyond getting his victory with whatever means necessary, so if Bruce was somehow gaining the upper hand, he wouldn't hesitate to resort to using whatever he needed to to gain an advantage.

A good example of how far he is willing to take things occurs in the Enemy of the State storyline, specifically in Priest's Black Panther #45. Despite the two being close colleagues, if not even close friends, T'Challa doesn't hesitate to create contingency plans for Stark which involve completely stopping his heart.

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If those are the lengths T'Challa will go to in order to win when he has to, I don't think you can say teleportation is out of character just because he didn't use it in 2 fights in which he was winning quite comfortably.

Batman's Piercing Durability vs Black Panther's Claws:

An OMAC (herald lvl bots) blade couldn't pierce it in The OMAC Project #3 and a batarang (they have high-herald lvl piercing capabilities as I'll show later) did nothing to the cowl (which is made out of the same material as the rest of the suit) back in Batman Vol. 1 Annual #22

Are you seriously telling me Batman's suit has herald-level piercing resistance right now?

No Caption Provided

What's even more funny than that claim, however, is the "proof" you've given. The resisting OMACs is at least an actual feat, though a complete outlier as I'll later show, but your second feat being the Batsuit not being penetrated by Batarangs is ludicrous, my dude. I've already showed that Batarangs aren't quite as effective at piercing as you seem to think.

Here is an album containing almost 20 instances of Batman's suit being cut through like nothing by street-tiers - in a wide range of stories ranging from many authors and eras from classic comics to Snyder's run on Batman. I'd upload them as scans but there are literally so many I don't know if ComicVine would even let me do it as one stack. Anyways, I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt and check whether you just meant the Rebirth suit was the really durable one, but that's not true either, as we see below:

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All-Star Batman #5

Batman's suit gets stabbed straight through by KGBeast, a street tier villain, using a broken off wooden stick, not even an actual blade. In fact, the creator of the Rebirth suit (Scott Snyder) himself wrote this issue, so I'd assume he knows what he is doing with this scan and isn't low-balling either. Anyways, unless you've got a ton more "herald-level piercing resistance" scans, I think we're done with that.

Luckily the Batsuit isn't made out of any metals, in Batman: Secret Files and Origins and Batman Plus: Arsenal it was revealed to be made out of triple weave kevlar and nomex.

Good for Batman, but Panther's claws have feats of cutting through things other than metals too.

I don't see the claws piercing Black Dragon in that scan

It was in the reference (#15), but since I'm assuming it wasn't too clear where it was, I decided to stop using that sort of formatting in this post. Anyways, here is the scan again:

Black Panther Vol. 3 #40
Black Panther Vol. 3 #40

Anyways, here is another good feat for T'Challa's claws' piercing, just to convince you the claws will run straight through Bruce.

Rise of the Black Panther #2
Rise of the Black Panther #2

As we see here, much to Namor's surprise, T'Challa's claws have no trouble cutting straight through him. We already know how durable you think Namor is, so I won't bother with too many feats beyond showing that lasers which cut through titanium don't even begin to pierce Namor's skin.

Anyways, to conclude this section: no Batman does not have herald-level piercing resistance, and yes, T'Challa will cut his suits to ribbons if he so desires.

Black Panther's Weapon Disrupters:

That's specific anti firearm/gun disrupters, that was a thing in Hudlin's Black Panther's run.

Which is fine, because I have composite standard gear for T'Challa.

so it seems like its a specific anti gun thing.

Unfortunately for Bruce, it isn't.

T'Challa has used the tech to completely disable a mech robot on another planet controlled by the Skrull's - so presumably that robot was as advanced as Skrull technology is.

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Black Panther Vol. 4 #32

So it should still be good enough to disable Bruce's tech.

As for the Skrulls instance from Black Panther Vol. 4 #39, they specifically stated their guns got exploded, nothing else. Furthermore, that was using some Wakandan disrupters from the Castle or whatever so its not standard gear.

Panther's disrupters are Wakandan disrupters, since he uses Wakandan tech, so the feat should still be somewhat applicable.. But yeah, the Skrulls instance wasn't from his suit but rather from his castle - I just wanted to show that the disrupters can take out tech which is more advanced than human guns. Anyways, I already did so in the showing above, so I guess this one isn't too important.

Moreover, what tech are you hacking here? Which tech exactly?

Pretty much everything in the "Countering Batman's Gear" section. I won't be hacking anything though, just using this to disable it.

Ergo, weapon disruptors aren't doing anything to Batman's gear.

Oops.... you know how I proved that none of that gear you mentioned above is going to work and even if it did, Batman wouldn't use it in character? Guess it doesn't matter either way since I just showed the disrupter can and will work on Bruce's tech.

Panther's Energy Daggers:

Meh, I already showed piercing feats but for energy durability feats he was unfazed after a building explosion in Detective Comics #743-744

This isn't really relevant since that's more of an explosive attack than anything like the energy daggers. I already disproved your so-called herald level piercing durability.

Anyways, Black Panther's energy daggers were able to pierce an alternate reality Terrax, who was still the herald of Galactus - and thus, by definition has herald-level durability lol. So even if the Batsuit was as durable as you claim, the daggers could still pierce through.

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New Avengers Vol. 3 #4-5

Only because of Panther analyzing and synthesizing the force field's wave algorithm. Not a real feat.

Where exactly does Panther say he analyzed/synthesized the force field's wave algorithm? All he says is that the force field has an algorithm which could be analyzed/synthesized, not that he actually did so or that he made any adjustments to the daggers so they would disable it. Anyway, here's more proof the energy daggers can easily cut through force fields:

Black Panther Vol. 4 #34
Black Panther Vol. 4 #34

So why didn't he use this tactic against Kraven during their fight from Black Panther Vol. 3 #6?

We don't know whether he was trying to paralyze Kraven or not because Kraven either dodged or deflected all of T'Challa's energy dagger strikes with his own dagger. As it shows in your own scan.

Anyways, here's another instance of Black Panther using the energy daggers' nerve scrambling abilities - this time to throw off Winter Soldier's brainwashing:

Rise of the Black Panther #3
Rise of the Black Panther #3

They wouldn't fry the utility belt because in reality, the energy deflector system keeps deflecting the daggers and the Batsuit just absorbs the daggers - thanks for the extra electrical attacks T'Challa!

I already explained why neither of those have any feats of working on tech which is anything like energy daggers, but just to reiterate that this isn't going to happen:

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Avengers Vol. 3 #21

Black Panther's energy daggers work on Ultron! Ultron, the same android who can drain power from Iron Man's own armor with but a touch (example 1) (example 2)! If Ultron, who has feats of absorbing much great sources of power than either Batman's energy deflector or absorber, can't absorb the energy daggers, what makes you think Batman's tech can?

Panther's Energy Shield:

I don't think its that good a feat. Based off the fact the energy spear didn't even go thru those Wakandans, makes me think she wasn't using higher lvls of spear power.

What makes you say the energy spear didn't go through the Wakandans? It clearly did considering that they died. If you mean that the energy spear wasn't shown coming out, that's because when it hits a target, it doesn't necessarily come right back out but rather gets absorbed/turned purple or whatever, as can be seen here:

Infinity #6
Infinity #6

Of course, since each comic book panel is a snapshot, it's equally possible that the artist drew an instance right before the spear left their bodies. Either way, there's certainly no evidence to think that Proxima Midnight was holding back against Black Panther, because there would be absolutely no reason for a cold-blooded villain like her to do so.

Panther's Vibranium Suit:

Panther can only tank bankhands from holding back high tiers like Professor Hulk, but full one punches? Hell no. Once Bruce sees his strikes are doing nothing, he'll oneshot Panther using earthquake punches. His suit hasn't absorbed anything as powerful as earthquake punches.

I already posted a ton of durability feats in the "Countering Batman's Other Gear" section, so these are definitely not one-shotting T'Challa either way. If that wasn't enough though, read the section I dedicated to these gloves where I explained why these were overhyped by you, and how Batman never uses them in character anyways. Even if they were powerful, T'Challa can still take at least one punch from them, and then redirect the energy right back at Batman through an AoE and one-shot Batman instead. It doesn't matter though, since T'Challa will just disable them with his weapons disrupter if Batman goes OOC and uses them.

Energy deflection system takes care of that, plus Batman's energy durability that's enough to no sell building explosions.

As I already mentioned, T'Challa's armor releases kinetic energy, so the deflection system won't do anything. And the impact will be more similar to a punch since it will be kinetic force, not an explosion.

Batsuit absorbs energy tho so it can absorb the gauntlet energies.

It's never absorbed kinetic energy or any energy in the same magnitude as to what Panther's gauntlets increase his striking power to.

I'm just going to also use this section to quickly cover some more equipment which could come in handy during this battle.

1: Black Panther can charge his suit with static electricity; this could surprise Batman during combat (Black Panther Vol. 3 #14).

2: Another notable feat for T'Challa's energy gauntlets; they can shatter a cage which Superior Iron Man couldn't break out of, despite not having been in battle so they couldn't have absorbed any kinetic energy beforehand (Avengers Vol. 5 #43). Yeah, there's absolutely no way Batman is taking a hit from these. Just to reiterate, Batman is not absorbing energy from these blows because they are kinetic energy, which Batman has never absorbed.

3 - 4: T'Challa's suit can form a jetpack which he can use to gain some aerial distance if he feels like he needs it - though this tech is rarely used (Civil War II #4).

5: T'Challa's suit can shoot ropes which appear to resemble vibranium out of his gauntlets; they are strong enough to completely restrain the Winter Soldier and would certainly capture Batman if Panther tags him with them (Rise of the Black Panther #3).

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Physical and Martial Prowess Comparison

Addressing Batman's Dionesium Speed and Strength Upgrade:

I thought debunking this topic deserved its own section, so I can address it a bit more in-depth.

Just before Rebirth, Batman came into contact with the Dionesium chemical compound. This healed all previous injuries, making him "the fastest and strongest Batman since ever".

So this is actually completely true. Here's the scan:

Batman Vol. 2 #50
Batman Vol. 2 #50

Meaning Pre-Dionesium Batman<<<<Post Dionesium Batman.

This on the other hand? Not so much. As Alfred says in the scan above, the dionesium just healed all the damage his body had gone through, making him faster and stronger than before since he no longer had any injuries which affected him. It doesn't do anything beyond that, so the increases in speed and strength are quite minimal, and t be honest, they're hardly even noticeable in the stories which come after this. So, this

I mean he wtf-stomped Solomon Grundy in one move during Batman Vol. 3 #2.

is just pure PIS. Want more proof? Let's look at how Batman's spar with Bronze Tiger goes: one instance from before the Dionesium boost, and then another instance from after.

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Detective Comics Vol. 1 #485

Initially, Bronze Tiger takes Batman by surprise and one-shots him, but in the next fight Batman and Bronze Tiger are pretty much evenly matched (with maybe a slight edge to Bronze Tiger) until the fight is interrupted by someone else poisoning Batman.

However, their post-Dionesium fight goes pretty differently.

Batman Vol. 3 #9
Batman Vol. 3 #9

Bronze Tiger dispatches Batman with ease within the space of a single page and like 2 hits. In fact, he even flat out says Batman is slower than before. Also, Batman isn't able to break out of Bronze Tiger's hold until Bronze Tiger lets him go, so he clearly hasn't become much stronger either.

Okay, let's do another comparison. Batman vs Bane is a pretty classic match-up. For the pre-Dionesium instance, I'll use the Forever Evil Aftermath: Batman vs Bane battle, since you mentioned that yourself in your post, and since it's pretty recent.

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Forever Evil Aftermath: Batman vs Bane #1

Bane gets some good hits in, but Batman has the upper hand for the majority of the battle, and he ends up winning pretty comfortably. However, when Batman fought Bane in Rebirth, it was a completely different story.

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Batman Vol. 3 #18

Bane handily dispatches Batman, despite the so-called boost he received to his speed and strength. After this, Bane visits Arkham, fights pretty much every single one of Batman's villains, and then fights a rested Batman again.

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Batman Vol. 3 #19

Despite all the punishment Bane took from fighting all those other villains (who Batman recruited to slow Bane down), Bane still has the upper hand in this fight for the most part! The only reason Batman takes him down is by catching him by surprise with a headbutt. Clearly, both these battles were significantly worse than pre-Dionesium Batman's showing against Bane.

In conclusion, even if we assume that the boost from the Dionesium is still active (which is unlikely since Alfred said the boost was because all the scarring Batman had was gone, but clearly a lot of it should be back by now considering he's been beaten up since then, such as those two fights against Bane), the boost to Batman's strength and speed is negligible.

Panther's Striking Power & Strength Vs. Batman's Durability & Strength:

I believe Panther is stronger than Pre Dionesium

So after the last section, I guess we both agree T'Challa is stronger than Batman?

That's taking things out of context, BP didn't him once. He only slashed him with his claws. Actually in this instance from Black Panther Vol. 3 #35, we see Man-Ape just fine some seconds later.

Here's the full battle from the beginning to the scan you showed::

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Black Panther Vol. 3 #35

It's pretty clear that not only does T'Challa hit him once and then slice him, but Man-Ape is knocked out for a bit until the explosion wakes him up. The slice is what knocks him out, but it still requires T'Challa's strength.

I honestly don't how that's better than Bruce ragdolling someone he previously had decent trouble with.

I highly doubt Solomon Grundy weighs 5 tons. Or even a quarter of that. So lifting him up isn't as impressive as T'Challa taking down a 5 ton rhino, and we already established how that instance was PIS anyways.

We dunno how durable this random alien is, no reason to believe he has durability anywhere near close to Bruce.

Fair.

Yeah this is a massive, massive outlier. Namor is capable of withstanding hits from the likes of Sentry and Hulk but Panther even staggers him? That would put T'Challa's striking Nuke+++++, out of respect for you intelligence I'll assume you somehow missed that fact. Street level character doesn't oneshot mid- high street tiers, yet staggers Namor....lol.

Dude, Sentry or Hulk would destroy Namor in a fight. Namor is a mid-tier, not a high-tier. But anyways, let's ignore that feat since it's really not necessary for my argument and I already got what I wanted from your response. :)

Some more Black Panther strength feats:

1: T'Challa easily breaks a stone/metal bar with a backhand (Black Panther Vol. 3 #25).

2: While weakened, T'Challa throws a spear straight through a stone wall (Jungle Action Vol. 2 #8).

3 - 5: T'Challa keeps an angry, 20 foot long, crocodile's jaws open for 3 pages, before escaping (Jungle Action Vol. 2 #10). For reference, scientists have done measurements of bite force in crocodiles, and scaled it up to a 20 foot crocodile, estimating:

"We tested several 17-foot [5-meter] saltwater crocs," he said. "If you scale the results up to 20-footers, you get estimates of 7,700 pounds [34,250 newtons], which is the low end of T. rex bite-force estimates.

National Geographic

This is an especially useful figure since, in the issue right before he beats Batman up, Bane struggles to break out of 2, 737 pounds of ice (Batman Vol. 3 #19).

6: T'Challa rips open a plane's cargo hatch while it is submerged in water (Black Panther Vol. 3 #14).

7 - 8: While tied up, T'Challa snaps metal chains and completely destroys the wooden waterwheel he was chained to (Jungle Action Vol. 2 #24).

9 - 10: T'Challa lifts up a slab of concrete that looks significantly larger than he is to save a child (Black Panther: The Sound and the Fury #1).

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Batman durability feats

First of all, Batman didn't "tank" hits from Shiva, Azrael, or Heretic. Heretic especially was doing some pretty serious damage to Bruce, and Bruce was staggered and hurt a bit by Shiva and Azrael as well in those scans. Compared to T'Challa's strength though, taking hits from people who one-shot Nightwing isn't nearly enough. And this isn't even including the extra damage he can output with his tech.

So yeah, Panther is going to have trouble in putting Bruce down.

Yeah, no. Just the crocodile feat puts T'Challa's strength level at Bane's level, if not higher. I already posted the 2 Bane vs Batman fights from Rebirth, but suffice to say, they didn't go well for Bruce. Since T'Challa is more durable, has better tech, is quicker, and is likely more skilled, T'Challa should have an even easier time beating Batman.

Panther's Speed vs Batman's Speed:

This isn't bullet timing. We don't get an exact view of when the shooter shot and Panther moved, so as far as we know its just aim dodging or the shooter missing.

Umm... never said it was.

That's not as good as Bruce dodging semi automatic gunfire in Detective Comics Vol. 2 #10. Popular semi automatics are roughly 1000 m/s. Might look like aim dodging but considering Batman himself stated that he dodged those bullets - its bullet timing.

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Are you seriously telling me this is bullet timing? Bullet timing is only when it is clearly shown that the shots are fired before the character moves. Since the shots are fired in the same panel as when Batman dodges them, they weren't fired before Batman could move, and thus it is not an instance bullet timing. And no offense but that logic is horrible - "Batman said he dodged the bullets so it is bullet-timing". Aim-dodging is considered dodging bullets too. Unless Batman said he was bullet-timing, or it was explicitly shown that he only moved after the shots were fired, it is not bullet timing.

Anyways, here is another instance of T'Challa bullet timing. Notice how the art clearly shows that the bullet is fired before T'Challa moves, through the use of panels to indicate time progression.

Avengers Vol. 1 #87
Avengers Vol. 1 #87

So, from what you've shown, I'd have to say Bruce is certainly not a bullet-timer.

He has better though, like moving FTE to Catwoman in Batman/Superman #15. Moving FTE to the likes of Catwoman is obviously way better than moving FTE to normal humans.

I'll agree with this; Batman's FTE feats are a bit better than T'Challa's.

Damn, Logan is an idiot. Reacting to him once makes him say "fast"? Lolz. Seriously, do you have feats of BP matching or at least moving almost as fast as Logan or other characters of the same caliber?

Clearly, T'Challa did more than just react to him. This can't really be shown in a comic, but it's pretty clear the writer wanted to show that T'Challa was moving so quickly that Logan was extremely surprised and astonished by the level of speed, not just that T'Challa can dodge Logan's attacks. If he just dodged like anyone else, Logan wouldn't be surprised and wouldn't exclaim how quick T'Challa is.

Anyways, here are some more feats:

1: Wolverine once again says T'Challa is quicker than he is after T'Challa dodges an ambush from him (Marvel Super Hero Contest of Champions #3).

2: Black Panther dodges fire from Wakandan Special Forces agents wielding assault rifles (Black Panther Vol. 3 #4).

3 - 4: Black Panther dodges miniaturized missiles which can never miss (Fantastic Four Vol. 1 Annual #5).

5: T'Challa casually blitzes 4 attackers in the time it takes to say two words (Black Panther Vol. 3 #46).

6: T'Challa dodges Kraven and then hits him twice in quick succession while depowered (Black Panther: The Man Without Fear #520). This is impressive since Kaine, Spider-Man's physically superior clone, has failed to blitz Kraven.

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I think this should show that T'Challa is still quicker than Bruce.

Panther's Skill vs Batman's Skill:

That's not consistent. He's been shown in The Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe: The Avengers 2004 to be only a level 5 fighter.

Are you seriously using Marvel Handbook power grids as a reliable source now? Come on man, I expected better from you.

Do you know who has a level 6 skill ranking? Deadpool. According to your link, level 6 fighters are masters of several forms of combat. Do you know who recently stomped Deadpool in a battle of skill? Black Panther. And this was in Deadpool's own book.

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Deadpool Vol. 4 #15

Do you know who has a level 7 skill ranking? Wolverine. According to your link, level 7 fighters are masters of all forms of combat. Do you know who recently had the upper hand against Wolverine in a battle of skill? Black Panther, despite not even wanting to fight. And this was in Wolverine's own book (though to be fair, Wolverine had lost his healing factor prior to this battle - though it still shouldn't have affected his skill level).

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Wolverine Vol. 5 #8

Anyways, while that should be enough evidence that the power grids are inaccurate, and that Panther is indeed a master of all forms of hand-to-hand combat, as was stated, those two battles are very good skill feats for Panther in general as well.

Then there's Panther stating he only studied all fighting styles.

He just stated he has studied every fighting style in the world - how does that mean he hasn't necessarily mastered them all? The two aren't mutually exclusive, you know.

Consistently speaking, T'Challa has only mastered one form of combat and just studied all of them. Doesn't come close to being trained in perfection to all of them.

Do you have any proof which doesn't come from a power grid that T'Challa has only mastered one combat style and just studied the others? If not, I think I've provided enough proof that T'Challa has mastered them all, similarly to Batman.

Nice, but experience doesn't mean anything.

Fair enough.

To be fair Karnak was only sensing the weak points in BP's body. All BP had to do was dodge, then hit which is what he needed. There wasn't any specific skill in play with Panther.

You are seriously underplaying this feat. Karnak isn't just an Inhuman with the power to detect weak points - he is also a super skilled fighter. Since you like power grids so much, here is Karnak's:

Avengers: Roll Call #1
Avengers: Roll Call #1

He has a 6 in fighting skills, making him a master in several forms of combat. But don't just take their word for it - look how easily he dispatches Black Widow. So any fight with Karnak requires a ton of skill to win, not just being quicker than he is (although even being quicker than Karnak is impressive since he can easily split bullets in half with his bare hands after they have been fired).

Anyways, T'Challa has easily outskilled and dispatched Karnak not just once, but twice, in Black Panther Vol. 4 #20 and Fantastic Four Vol. 1 Annual #5:

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Does Batman have any such feats of humiliating such skilled fighters?

Pressure points and nerve strikes won't work on Bruce. How can Panther nerve strike Batman when he's under armor, when he'll only be nerve striking the armor and not Bruce's actual pressure points/nerves?

If T'Challa can nerve strike Luke Cage through his unbreakable skin (which has both way better blunt force and piercing durability than Batman's armor), he should be able to do the same through Bruce's armor.

Anyways, before I end this section I'd like to showcase a couple more skill feats for T'Challa.

First comes T'Challa inventing a completely new fighting style called "shadow combat", which relies on his mastery of Wakandan and K'un-Lun fighting styles, as it is a fusion of the two.

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Ultimates 2 #5

Next, T'Challa fights and takes down a Super-Skrull with the powers and skills of every skilled fighter on Earth, including Danny Rand. One of T'Challa's absolute best skill feats. I think this one is directly comparable with and definitely better than your Prometheus feat for Batman.

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Black Panther Vol. 4 #40

Finally, I'd like to showcase T'Challa's battle against Iron Fist. Iron Fist had been hypnotized by Mephisto to convince him to kill Black Panther.

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Black Panther Vol. 3 #39

This is really impressive because Iron Fist was effectively bloodlusted and out to kill Panther, while T'Challa didn't want to fight and was trying to cure Danny. Despite that, T'Challa has the upper hand for the majority of the battle, dodging most of Danny's strikes, landing most of his own strikes, and in general being one step ahead. The only part where Danny really lets loose into T'Challa is when T'Challa puts that device on Danny (6th scan) which presumably left him open to retaliation, which Danny took advantage of. T'Challa was hard-pressed to then recover from the sheer force of Danny's blows. Overall, this battle is good for T'Challa's skill, speed, and durability feats. This excerpt from the script confirms just how quick Danny was moving, if anyone is interested. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find anything further of the script.

With that, I think I've proven that T'Challa has a significant skill advantage over Batman, going by the information you've provided. T'Challa has not only beaten, but even humiliated some of the best martial artists in the Marvel Universe, and has invented his own martial arts. Has Bruce ever done either?

Panther's Pain Tolerance & Endurance vs Batman's Pain Tolerance & Endurance:

Bruce's pain tolerance is absolutely insane. In Batman: Birth Of The Demon, he got lit on fire, got a shovel shoved through his gut by Ra’s but still kept fighting him. Plus he already poisoned by toxic waste before this...

Not gonna lie, Batman's pain tolerance is extremely impressive. But I think T'Challa's is equally so, if not superior. A good example of T'Challa's sheer endurance is showcased in the stretch between Jungle Action Vol. 2 #12 and Jungle Action Vol. 2 #15. Since this takes place over so many issues, I will only post excerpts of the entire event as scans, but I can give you a good summary of the event. Basically, this was pretty soon after Killmonger threw T'Challa off a waterfall, and he had only recently recovered. After that there were a couple of other adventures/battles he went through in quick succession, most notably fighting in a large scale battle/war in Jungle Action Vol. 2 #11 (the issue before this starts). This issue starts with T'Challa going to the Land of the Chilling Mists, where temperatures can go from -50 degrees in the day to under -100 degrees at night. According to Wikipedia, skin can freeze almost instantly at or below -40 degress (either Celsius or Fahrenheit), and T'Challa was wearing nothing but his spandex suit. We don't know how far he goes, but the land is described as enormous multiple times.

Okay, this is going to take a long while, so I will just use someone else's description of this story which I found on the internet.

When Panther reaches the Resurrection Altar, he immediately attacks Killmonger. Killmonger slashes him across the back with his spiked flail and throws him into the Resurrection Pit. The pit is heated by a dying star, and even being in close proximity to the pit can melt human flesh. After a brief struggle and severe burning to his hands and feet, he escapes the pit to face Killmonger again. However, before he has the chance, he is attacked by Sombre, whose acid touch is potent enough to knock him unconscious.

Panther later awakens, starving and freezing at night in the Chilling Mists, to immediately fight a pack of “Devil-Wolves.” The exertion it takes to spear the first attacking wolf causes him to break into a sweat that immediately freezes to his skin. However, he still has the strength to swing the wolf’s dead body into the rest of the pack with bone-snapping force. One of the wolves manages to slash through his suit and his flesh, causing blood to spill from his back and further exposing him to the blistering cold. He kills even more wolves with his bare hands before frightening the pack off, and the heavy breathing of the effort causes a frost-scar to sear into his lungs. Finally, he sits awake all night at the mouth of a cave to watch for more predators.

24 hours after he fought Killmonger at the Resurrection Altar, Panther tracks down two of his mercenaries through the ice. Despite his injuries from the day before or the dried blood matted to his suit, he sneaks up on and dashes around his armed enemies. One of Killmonger’s men is able to hit him with a weapon like a morningstar, tearing flesh from his back. Even still, he is able to throw the full-grown man several meters and dodge point-blank sniper fire, eventually defeating his opponents. All of this activity even further sears his lungs. Clothing himself with a pelt from one of the wolves, he once again treks to the Resurrection Altar, only to find huge, inhuman footprints.

Following the footprints, Panther takes another long journey through the frost, and this time he comes across a group of legendary white gorillas.

While Panther marvels at the creatures in front of him, he’s approached by the greatest white gorilla of all. The gorilla batters him, sending him crashing into a sheet of ice, and his mind grows foggy as he’s being beaten down by the massive ape. Eventually, the gorilla grabs him in a powerful grip, crushing the air from his lungs and tearing into his chest and stomach with its claws. He is nearing death and his bones are almost snapped, when at the last moment he jabs at the gorilla’s eye to escape. Finally, he manages to throw himself with the massive creature off a cliff and catches a ledge before landing on the jagged bones below. After dragging himself back up the face of the cliff, he collapses into the snow.

Panther picked himself up again and made a 3 day journey without rest to leave the Chilling Mists and find Sombre in Serpent Valley. By the end of the search, he pounces down on Sombre from the top of a tree, but Sombre quickly wraps his acid talons around T’Challa’s neck. Sombre dissolves the soft tissue of his throat, and the acid slowly burns every single wound from the previous days wide open again. While T’Challa falls into agony, Sombre punctures his neck to drink T’Challa’s blood. Just before he totally blacks out, T’Challa kicks Sombre into the nearby marsh while he’s distracted. In pity, he reaches for his doomed enemy, tearing his newly opened wounds even wider, but ultimately fails.

Then, looking behind him, Panther discovers that Sombre’s distraction was a spirit named Mokadi. Despite all of his wounds, he is still able to leap gracefully through the trees while questioning Mokadi.

Panther follows Mokadi to see Killmonger’s operation: a plan to capture the dinosaurs of Serpent Valley. He is able to climb straight down a towering cliff side to reach the site below.

Once he reaches the foot of the cliff, Panther finds himself face-to-face with a Tyrannosaurus. The dinosaur crushes his frail body in its claw, once again tearing open his wounds. His torn costume is so blood-soaked at this point that it’s basically a sponge. He’s able to force apart the claw of the dinosaur before somersaulting to the ground, the impact of which forces the air from his lungs and causes his vision to blur. He runs away from the pursuing Tyrannosaurus and claws his way up a steep cliff side, tearing his wounds open wider still. He jumps from the cliff and grabs onto the top of a tree, nearly ripping his arms from their sockets. He pulls it down to the ground with his momentum and strains to hold back the sharply bent tree from snapping back into position while Mokadi rolls a boulder onto it. Finally, he looses the boulder, hitting the dinosaur squarely on the head and killing it instantly.

After yet another journey, Panther is tending to his wounds in the Forest of Thorns when he is ambushed by K’ruel and his men. Before K’ruel is able to fire his bow, T’Challa turns and notices his enemy. K’ruel looses an explosive arrow, and T’Challa leaps into the nearby river at the last second. His enemies, confident in their victory, approach the water. Erupting from the river, T’Challa grabs one of the men by the neck and launches him several meters into the air. He dodges another napalm arrow and allows himself to be hit by the force of the blast, launching him into another of K’ruel’s men. T’Challa lastly turns his attention to K’ruel, and they enter a fierce close-quarters grapple. Due to K’ruel’s mutation, a hundred needles dig deep into T’Challa’s chest, arms, hands, and even his neck and face. The pain is so intense that T’Challa can’t even speak and almost immediately falls unconscious.

Panther wakes up tied to a cactus and tortured by thorns. The pain of the thorns together with all of the wounds he’s gathered over the previous days is so unbearable that it overpowers his senses. Struggling against his bindings just drives the thorns even deeper. He endures this pain in the desert heat from morning until dusk and eventually starts to hallucinate in his state.

After being woken from his hallucinations by a newt, Panther looks up to see a pterodactyl swooping down on him. He braces himself against the cactus and thorns are driven even deeper into his back, but the pterodactyl eventually rips him from his bindings, crushing his arms. He fights against the creature as talons plunge deep into his chest, eventually breaking free only to find himself falling back down toward the forest of thorns. At the very last second, the pterodactyl swoops back down to catch him. He wrestles his way on top of the creature in midair and stays balanced on its back despite all of the pterodactyl’s efforts.

Panther directs the creature back to the forest and swoops down on K’ruel, dodging his arrows. He leaps off of the pterodactyl, dodging an arrow in midair, and instantly knocks out his opponent. He spends the next 2 days without rest dragging K’ruel back through Serpent Valley, over several mountains, and all the way to Wakanda. He finally collapses at the steps of the palace.

/u/Karstaagly on Reddit

This is super-impressive in my view, and I think it is better than your feat for Batman. T'Challa spends basically an entire week being tortured, attacked by various creatures, surviving in the most extreme of temperatures, etc. and despite that manages to defeat his enemy, and then drag him back home by walking through harsh conditions for 2 days in a row! It's honestly a crazy feat! The best part, IMO, is that a ton of the individual feats in this series are impressive strength/durability/speed feats for any street-tier like Batman or T'Challa, but they were accomplished in such a state of exhaustion and injury. Now, without further ado, here are the scan excerpts from this story:

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Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8Gallery image 9Gallery image 10
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8Gallery image 9Gallery image 10
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Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

I totally acknowledge that this is a scan dump, but in my defense, it is really hard cutting down what to include and what not to when you are trying to showcase an event that occurred over 4 issues and pretty much all the pages are relevant. I tried to remove as much as I could without making it completely impossible to follow along with or understand, though.

Conclusions and Summaries

Section 1:

Barely any of Batman's tech will be useful against T'Challa, and even if it was, it isn't in character for Batman to use it anyways.

Section 2:

T'Challa has a ton of tech which is going to disable a lot of Bruce's gear, and even more which can effectively one-shot him.

Section 3:

T'Challa has better stats than Bruce does, and also has better skill until and unless my opponent can prove otherwise.

Overall Summary + Strategy:

T'Challa holds literally every advantage in this fight, and that's why he wins. He'll likely start with melee combat, but once he notices Batman can keep up, he can resort to any of his tech to finish the fight, whether it is the energy daggers, ropes, gauntlets, weapon disrupters, etc. It doesn't hurt that Bruce literally cannot hurt T'Challa at all. Whatsoever.

TL;DR:

Black Panther is basically better at pretty much everything than Batman is, so it's understandable he would hold the edge in this battle. I think I've shown his physicals are significantly better than Bruce's own, and that Bruce's gear doesn't have the feats to counter T'Challa's own tech (not to mention that Bruce never uses any of the tech my opponent mentioned in character anyways). Overall, I see this battle beginning as a melee brawl, and ending there as T'Challa overwhelms Batman with his physicals and skill (not to mention that Batman can't hurt him). If Batman does try to use any tech, T'Challa will automatically disable it with his weapons disrupter, and if T'Challa actually feels this battle is going badly for him (despite the fact that Batman literally can't hurt T'Challa in his vibranium suit), then he can bring out all his super-powerful tech that should end this battle quickly enough.

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#37 Posted by Darthjhawk (4275 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn this really got kind of salty. I was not expecting this from the two debaters involved.

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#38 Posted by jashro44 (49367 posts) - - Show Bio

@causeimbatman: I've edited the title of your thread. Don't call people names, and don't antagonize them. This is a warning.

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#39 Posted by EmpressOfDread (7860 posts) - - Show Bio

t4v

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#40 Edited by deactivated-5b0ff1f569a57 (4213 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackspidey2099:

“had the cutesy idea to change my tag in the title from "blackspidey2099" to "bullshit2099" after his opener. ”

Wait you think that was me saying your post is bullshit? That wasn’t the intent at all...it was just a joke based on the original title having “BS”. Sorry if i offended you in anyway

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#41 Edited by blackspidey2099 (5240 posts) - - Show Bio

@causeimbatman: ahh dw about it bro. Hopefully this debate will be a fun one, not a super-heated one. Good luck on your counters!

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#42 Posted by TheWatcherKing (16681 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn this really got kind of salty. I was not expecting this from the two debaters involved.

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#43 Posted by _KingofLatveria (15317 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

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#44 Posted by blackspidey2099 (5240 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn this really got kind of salty. I was not expecting this from the two debaters involved.

jeez guys, the salt has been resolved. please don't derail the thread with "salt" memes. do you want to be tagged for voting?

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#45 Posted by _KingofLatveria (15317 posts) - - Show Bio
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#46 Posted by blackspidey2099 (5240 posts) - - Show Bio
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#47 Posted by HigherPower (11574 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag. I have a few things to say about this.

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#48 Posted by blackpantherisb (5260 posts) - - Show Bio
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#49 Posted by blackspidey2099 (5240 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag. I have a few things to say about this.

Sure. I hope they're all good things haha

@blackspidey2099: Nice Post mate.

Thank you! I hope you didn't mind me borrowing that little bit from your debate with CIB? Also, did you want to be tagged or not?

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#50 Posted by HigherPower (11574 posts) - - Show Bio